Over the last twenty years or more I've been priveliged to be a member of many communities and there are others I would call being a member of was not so much a privelige, more of an endurance test. Community is a great idea and when it works it works so well, but when it goes wrong it can be really awful. I am sure people have lots of experiences and tips they would like to share.
What are the key points in community thinking that are important. I think real respect for other is essential and some kind of core structure, also some footing in reality so that the community does not become detatched from the real world, been there before .....
Presently I don't live in a community of any kind but I'm still actively involved with communal issues.
I'm interested what are other peoples experiences / views on community core attitudes, beliefs and structures ?
Simon

I have visited 4 communities and would like to live in a community. I would like to help set up a community that owns, operates and lives off a reasonably conventional organic farm and/or forest. And start more interesting and useful land use businesses (permaculture) from that conventional base. I support self sufficiency, but imagine it is hard to be a vegan and be self-sufficient in a Scottish climate. My personal utopia would buying and running a scottish highland estate, and running it better than the lairds who never thought people like me would ever raise the money to buy it in the first place. I suppose I think support the idea of working where you live and living where you work. Spending all my time with the same bunch of folk could be a test of ability. I would hope to be well involved with local people in work rest and play. I would like to see lots of new communities being a normal part of life, both rural and urban, particularly as an antidote to: living alone; expencive housing; expencive land; clumsy land use planning; rural car dependency; time poverty; mortgages and commuting. I would like to see mixed and tolerant communities with a wide range of ages, gods and diets, though I don't do gods myself. Putting old people in care homes is wasteful, unsustainable and wrong. Why don't more communities have old folks living with them? I think the need for communities as antidotes to resource problems will make them more desirable especially peak oil, climate change etc. I think there are whole areas of community style living that have yet to be explored.

To answer previous post I think the communities that work well are mostly lucky that suitable people have appeared at the right time, and continue to appear to replace lost members. Recruiting and keeping good folk is a key skill. Perhaps people can be trained. I think good people realise that community living is hard work but it is much more rewarding than more normal British household living. Good community relations means getting up and doing stuff when you don't feel like it but others do. It means not counting all your work hours and those of others. Having a common purpose is also essential, and motivates people to help the community for the sake of the community. The common purpose can be gardening or protesting or whatever. Competition is the antidote to community.

Greetings Simon and Oakesic and All Seekers,

this is a quick mail to add some genuine gestures for advancement of IC's and the type.
You'll notice my mood is stressed, the reason for this is that people like myself, with progressive ideology and an earnest wish to
balance life between principle and practicality, heave precious little to do but internalise.
I'm not a defeatist by nature, but having come under fire from several directions, (no surprise really, as the state and monopolistic systems have created such a spin for 'ordinary and even well meaning people' that they have lost sight of what is important, and how to sustain their ideals - legislation, media, employment, financial reality is extremely disorienting, literally taxing on mind, spirit, body and soul.
But my point is, that those that do not subscribe to the deep ecology model,

-let me elucidate-

the common DE model sees that man has strayed so far from nature that 'he' has become profane, disconnected, 'evil'

the solution is to abandon all technology,

to go back to nature, and live at a basic level that makes us similar to hunter gatherers, but possibly without the hunting.

-----------------------

There is the Futurist model...

I confess a strong empathy with this model, and unashamedly so,

it has been beautifully discussed by Alvin Toffler in 3rd Wave

The point here is that technological revolution is only just beginning

we are still in the in - dust - rial revolution

in this 'paradigm' Toffler sees that all systems are collapsing because they are unable to contain and feed
information - energy - in a sutainable way

where it differs radically from DE

is that it entertains and cites and implies that eco-technology
and a complete overhaul of our current thinking in

science,
religion
art,
politics
employment
housing

virtually every field of human endeavour

is absolutely necessary and will occur either catastrophically or
with mass consent

This view is favoured by me because it seems to be correct,
and is not a binary approach,
i.e.,
either/or

in other words, it does not propose that the alternatives that face humanity are extreme opposites,
its integrationist
it has a balanced approach, but is perhaps even more radical than scientism or deep ecology

Some of 'us'

(that is "....those that know the difference between freedom and the illusion of freedom," cited from the film by Michael Apted, Thunderheart, spoken by 'Jimmy Lookstwice', just before the FBI crash the Chataqua between Val Kilmer and Jimmy),

or even those that just sense the possibility of far better ways to be,

are looking for a way to preserve the best in humanity,

our ingenuity

our power both sacred and intellectual

so it becomes balanced and breaks with the shackles of either/or binary thinking

and of course,

with the mass exploitation and fragmental blundering stupidity

that surrounds and makes idiots of us all

clearly, millions of humans are being crushed by lassaiz fayre economics
neo-capitalism

millions are being sent to the 'gas chamber'of hoplessness, death,
torture, and the trajedy of wasted lives,

most of these people are non white....

I mention this not as any slur on anyone,

but an acknowledgemnt of debt,

a debt that must be paid if only with solidarity and progress for equality.

And the irony of it all,
the exploitation of 'the former colonies',
the environment,
the human psyche through psychological and actual warfare!!!!!????

The same system that had enslaved those hapless 'natives' in times past,

enslaves us all now.

OK!

Its a rant, it has rage and the content of passion and the grace of truthfulness,

it's our history,

ALL OUR HISTORY

how are we realistically going to change this?????

consider the options, friends?

Consider the incredible technology that can combine with a balnced ecology to create heaven on earth,

I know, I know, the DE, and deep pagans will probably string me up for 'misunderstanding the power, the seductiveness of the
ego, the subtle ego, the megalomania, that unravels all that is sacred and good',
but - I think not.

The soeciety we have is the one we deserve,
especially here in the so called 'democratic countries'

<<BTW, power to all those passionate souls that tried to swing it back by attending

Seattle, Davos,

and the many G8 - clown prince of crime - summits>>

Just look at the MYT engine, (I know there are detractors, and I am not an engineer, but the principle still follows that
we can createsuper efficient engines/energy systems)

or Kleins HHO water powered engines,

Guy Negre's air powered cars

most of these and many others are on You Tube,

and there are many scientific sources that you can research for verification.


Think of it this way,

the Ancient Greeks used to believe that in order to fly, a thing must be lighter than air.

Sounds logical doesn't it?

In fact, particles lighter than air will float about in the atmosphere,
but the Wright brothers found another way to fly by using very crude technology.

Flight was d ream for humanity for centuries, as was space travel,
and many cures to fatal diseases, or hot water, desalinated water, refrigeration and so on .....


THE POINT HERE IS that whatever humanity applies their energy to

I REPEAT:::::::


WHATEVER HUMANITY APPLIES ITS ENERGY TO........

eventually occurs.

Energy follows thought

because thought is the conduit.


WE have to IMAGINE a better world than the one we have,
and then create it.

There are myriad obstacles, and critical mass is needed, at first in apparently isolated communities,
and then in global collectives, for improvement,

a global communication network for alternative communities where sharing ideas, experiences, technology and so on
becomes part of the overall evolution.

The powers that be, also do not want this evolution to occur,

self sufficiency,

the ability to generate energy off grid -

the ability to travel freely,

the ability to generate income ex system, is one that itself, will change the power structures that dominate our
physical and mental reality.

So, getting back to communities,

they have their 'power relationships'
hierarchies
cliques
control groups
agenda's
monopolies

...sounds a bit like society in general,

however, its the fundamental principles upon which the group is based and the ingenuity and
commitment to them,

that will shape and structure it.

If the basis is to be freed from wage slavery and monopoly as with 'Abundance Through Sharing'to name but one,
and if the procedures are thoroughly worked out, or at least constantly monitored and adjusted toward the end goal,
then there is a strong likelihood that they will achieve these.

As Oakesent explains,

if a community attracts the right kind of people to adavnce its cause, and have those people replaced by new ones when the
old, 'retire',

they are lucky.

However, I hope its not so much luck as it is intent.
I.e., "ATTRACT" is the key word.

We, need to attract the right kind of people, and this is perhaps done by considering what people need, want, and how to make it work.

I am not an expert, but this is a way of thinking about creating the ideal

DIVERSITY --- I think that's what we need to enhance the 'human' genepool'
the well of creativity,

after all,
isn't exclusivity,

i.e., division
difference and separation, the chief tools that the power brokers use to achieve the 'us and them' competitive catastrophe that we
all live in?

And, I hope these IC's do not fall into right wing arguments,
I read a post by a 'wood dweeling' community yesterday that said that
immigrants, which he referred to as 'poor',
are overburdeoning this country

this follows the false and racist argument of Professor Harding

who posits the lifeboat principle,

i.e., the west has all the technology and knowledge making them better able to
look after the environment
thus, those less able to do so should not be allowed to board the ecological life boat
as it would sink.

Why don't they just go Beyondist and 'pacify' or gas all the world's poor,
that would solve the problem wouldn't it?

I am not seriously advocating that they should ever consider it although they have...
and that the lifeboat position naturally leads to the extreme Beyondist one...

But the connection is too close, and it stinks of wickedness and fascism, its a facile, irresponsible argument

and as myopic as anything proposed by the powerbrokers of today.

Perhaps we should read again the Universal Declaration of Human Rights 1948 which is far more liberal than many IC goals:

Just in case you have not read or forgotten what it proposes, I copied it below:

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Article 1.

All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.

Article 2.

Everyone is entitled to all the rights and freedoms set forth in this Declaration, without distinction of any kind, such as race, colour, sex, language, religion, political or other opinion, national or social origin, property, birth or other status. Furthermore, no distinction shall be made on the basis of the political, jurisdictional or international status of the country or territory to which a person belongs, whether it be independent, trust, non-self-governing or under any other limitation of sovereignty.

Article 3.

Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of person.

Article 4.

No one shall be held in slavery or servitude; slavery and the slave trade shall be prohibited in all their forms.

Article 5.

No one shall be subjected to torture or to cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment.

Article 6.


Everyone has the right to recognition everywhere as a person before the law.

Article 7.


All are equal before the law and are entitled without any discrimination to equal protection of the law. All are entitled to equal protection against any discrimination in violation of this Declaration and against any incitement to such discrimination.

Article 8.


Everyone has the right to an effective remedy by the competent national tribunals for acts violating the fundamental rights granted him by the constitution or by law.

Article 9.


No one shall be subjected to arbitrary arrest, detention or exile.

Article 10.


Everyone is entitled in full equality to a fair and public hearing by an independent and impartial tribunal, in the determination of his rights and obligations and of any criminal charge against him.

Article 11.


(1) Everyone charged with a penal offence has the right to be presumed innocent until proved guilty according to law in a public trial at which he has had all the guarantees necessary for his defence.

(2) No one shall be held guilty of any penal offence on account of any act or omission which did not constitute a penal offence, under national or international law, at the time when it was committed. Nor shall a heavier penalty be imposed than the one that was applicable at the time the penal offence was committed.

Article 12.


No one shall be subjected to arbitrary interference with his privacy, family, home or correspondence, nor to attacks upon his honour and reputation. Everyone has the right to the protection of the law against such interference or attacks.

Article 13.


(1) Everyone has the right to freedom of movement and residence within the borders of each state.

(2) Everyone has the right to leave any country, including his own, and to return to his country.

Article 14.


(1) Everyone has the right to seek and to enjoy in other countries asylum from persecution.

(2) This right may not be invoked in the case of prosecutions genuinely arising from non-political crimes or from acts contrary to the purposes and principles of the United Nations.

Article 15.


(1) Everyone has the right to a nationality.

(2) No one shall be arbitrarily deprived of his nationality nor denied the right to change his nationality.

Article 16.


(1) Men and women of full age, without any limitation due to race, nationality or religion, have the right to marry and to found a family. They are entitled to equal rights as to marriage, during marriage and at its dissolution.

(2) Marriage shall be entered into only with the free and full consent of the intending spouses.

(3) The family is the natural and fundamental group unit of society and is entitled to protection by society and the State.

Article 17.


(1) Everyone has the right to own property alone as well as in association with others.

(2) No one shall be arbitrarily deprived of his property.

Article 18.


Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion; this right includes freedom to change his religion or belief, and freedom, either alone or in community with others and in public or private, to manifest his religion or belief in teaching, practice, worship and observance.

Article 19.


Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference and to seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers.

Article 20.

(1) Everyone has the right to freedom of peaceful assembly and association.

(2) No one may be compelled to belong to an association.

Article 21.


(1) Everyone has the right to take part in the government of his country, directly or through freely chosen representatives.

(2) Everyone has the right of equal access to public service in his country.

(3) The will of the people shall be the basis of the authority of government; this will shall be expressed in periodic and genuine elections which shall be by universal and equal suffrage and shall be held by secret vote or by equivalent free voting procedures.

Article 22.


Everyone, as a member of society, has the right to social security and is entitled to realization, through national effort and international co-operation and in accordance with the organization and resources of each State, of the economic, social and cultural rights indispensable for his dignity and the free development of his personality.

Article 23.


(1) Everyone has the right to work, to free choice of employment, to just and favourable conditions of work and to protection against unemployment.

(2) Everyone, without any discrimination, has the right to equal pay for equal work.

(3) Everyone who works has the right to just and favourable remuneration ensuring for himself and his family an existence worthy of human dignity, and supplemented, if necessary, by other means of social protection.

(4) Everyone has the right to form and to join trade unions for the protection of his interests.

Article 24.


Everyone has the right to rest and leisure, including reasonable limitation of working hours and periodic holidays with pay.

Article 25.


(1) Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of himself and of his family, including food, clothing, housing and medical care and necessary social services, and the right to security in the event of unemployment, sickness, disability, widowhood, old age or other lack of livelihood in circumstances beyond his control.

(2) Motherhood and childhood are entitled to special care and assistance. All children, whether born in or out of wedlock, shall enjoy the same social protection.

Article 26.


(1) Everyone has the right to education. Education shall be free, at least in the elementary and fundamental stages. Elementary education shall be compulsory. Technical and professional education shall be made generally available and higher education shall be equally accessible to all on the basis of merit.

(2) Education shall be directed to the full development of the human personality and to the strengthening of respect for human rights and fundamental freedoms. It shall promote understanding, tolerance and friendship among all nations, racial or religious groups, and shall further the activities of the United Nations for the maintenance of peace.

(3) Parents have a prior right to choose the kind of education that shall be given to their children.

Article 27.


(1) Everyone has the right freely to participate in the cultural life of the community, to enjoy the arts and to share in scientific advancement and its benefits.

(2) Everyone has the right to the protection of the moral and material interests resulting from any scientific, literary or artistic production of which he is the author.

Article 28.


Everyone is entitled to a social and international order in which the rights and freedoms set forth in this Declaration can be fully realized.

Article 29.


(1) Everyone has duties to the community in which alone the free and full development of his personality is possible.

(2) In the exercise of his rights and freedoms, everyone shall be subject only to such limitations as are determined by law solely for the purpose of securing due recognition and respect for the rights and freedoms of others and of meeting the just requirements of morality, public order and the general welfare in a democratic society.

(3) These rights and freedoms may in no case be exercised contrary to the purposes and principles of the United Nations.

Article 30.


Nothing in this Declaration may be interpreted as implying for any State, group or person any right to engage in any activity or to perform any act aimed at the destruction of any of the rights and freedoms set forth herein.

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I sincerely hope this ramble is of some use to someone,
me, I am ready to make things happen in a panopolistic environment,
and advocate the use of technology, preferably off grid,
and with a system that promotes democratises merit
and recognises the need for an intelligent value system.

As for dwellings and construction of such communities,
the Rammed Earth principle seems quite promising.
Check it out if you have not already.

Wouldn't it be great if England had half as many IC's as the US,
and if we realised why we don't and did something about it.

Love and deep peace.

Luc the spook